Legislature(1993 - 1994)
04/05/1994 03:35 PM Senate TRA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
CHAIRMAN SHARP brings up HB 330 (FUEL STATE AUTO FLEET WITH NATURAL GAS) as the next order of business before the Senate Transportation Committee. The chairman calls a representative from the sponsor's office to testify. Number 317 JEFF LOGAN, Aide to Representative Green, reads the sponsor's statement on HB 330. Number 333 SENATOR KERTTULA states he has no objection to HB 330, but the term, "public and private cooperation" makes him think that the public sector will get ripped off by the private sector. Number 337 MR. LOGAN responds that the problem at this point, is that the private sector fleet is not large enough for the private sector to secure financing for this project. HB 330 would allow the state to finance a refueling facility through CMAQ (Congestion Mitigation Air Quality) funds. Those funds are made available from the federal government, and the state currently has a little over 8 million dollars. It is envisioned that DOT could provide the land near the airport, and some of the CMAQ monies, which have to be spent, could be used for the facility. The private sector would also put some money up. Number 362 SENATOR KERTTULA adds there will also be a cost for converting vehicles to using natural gas, which is approximately 3,500$ per vehicle. Number 378 MR. LOGAN replies that HB 330 has language included by DOT, that would require the use of natural gas when practicable. In regards rds to the cost of the conversion kit, Mr. Logan notes that the kit is transferrable from one vehicle to another; so once the investment in the conversion kit is made, the cost is recouped pretty quickly with the lower cost of the fuel. Number 389 SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS says when he was in Edmonton, Alberta several weeks ago, he noticed that the taxi cab he rode in used propane as fuel. He asks if propane would be included in HB 330. MR. LOGAN responds that propane is not included in HB 330. It was considered, but the problem with propane is that it does not help with the emissions standards in Anchorage. One of the primary goals HB 330 is attempting to achieve, is to get away from the use of oxy-fuels. SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS states that in Alberta, propane was 8 cents per litre, while unleaded gas was 36 cents per litre. Senator Phillips suggests doing some research to find out how the private sector is involved in the propane market in Alberta. SENATOR KELLY asks what the process is for the use of natural gas in vehicles. MR. LOGAN replies natural gas can be used in both its' natural state, or in a compressed state. Number 410 SENATOR KELLY asks if natural gas would be dangerous in the case of an automobile accident. MR. LOGAN responds it is not dangerous. Natural gas, when released, simply evaporates into the atmosphere. Mr. Logan quotes Ken Langle, former state fleet manager, who says natural gas is much safer than gasoline. SENATOR KELLY asks if a special tank is used for natural gas. MR. LOGAN replies that special tanks are used. SENATOR KELLY asks Mr. Logan who currently produces liquid natural gas in Alaska. MR. LOGAN responds Marathon and Phillips do. SENATOR KELLY asks Mr. Logan what their market is. MR. LOGAN replies their market is Japan. There are also a few state cars that use natural gas. There is a private retailer in the Spenard area that provides that gas. SENATOR KELLY asks what the retailer in Spenard thinks of HB 330. MR. LOGAN responds he has not asked the retailer that question. CHAIRMAN SHARP asks if any of the utilities utilize natural gas. Number 439 MR. LOGAN replies the Barrow electrical utility has been using natural gas in their vehicles for some time. Some officers of the Enstar natural gas utility in Anchorage who have natural gas lines supplying their homes are able to tap into those lines to fuel their cars. Number 444 SENATOR LINCOLN asks Mr. Logan what the term "non-attainment" in HB 330 means. MR. LOGAN responds the term refers to non-attainment of the Clean Air Act of 1990. CHAIRMAN SHARP adds it refers primarily to Anchorage and Fairbanks. Any place where emissions tests are required probably stems from that act. Number 453 SENATOR LINCOLN asks if, then, that term would just apply to the Anchorage and Fairbanks areas. Number 454 MR. LOGAN states that is correct for that portion of the bill. However, another portion of HB 330 says "where the fuel is available". And presently, the only place the fuel is available is the Anchorage bowl area. There are plans to make the fuel available in Fairbanks soon. But this was the sponsor's way of making sure DOT would not have to spend extra money for vehicles in areas where the fuel was not available, and where the Clean Air Act of 1990 is not applicable. Number 459 SENATOR LINCOLN asks what some of the original terms in HB 330 were to which the commissioner of DOT objected. Number 463 MR. LOGAN responds that originally, the bill stipulated that DOT was to have a certain percentage of their fleet converted to natural gas use by a certain date. That is the language to which DOT objected. Number 470 SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS requests that Mr. Logan contact Alberta to see how use of propane fuel was implemented in Edmonton. Number 476 CHAIRMAN SHARP asks if there are any more questions for the sponsor. Hearing none, the chairman calls a representative from DOT to testify. Number 497 HELVI K. SANDVIK, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Transportation & Public Facilities (DOT) says the department supports the general concept of using natural gas and other alternative fuels. The department is doing so at this time. DOT did object to the earlier version of the bill as noted earlier. DOT does believe that it already has the authority to proceed in this direction without HB 330, and are doing so under existing law. Nonetheless, DOT is supportive of the concept of HB 330. Number 490 CHAIRMAN SHARP says it was his understanding that DOT is moving in the direction of using alternative fuels, though he does not know of any plans for joint venture fueling stations. Number 497 MS. SANDVIK responds that under ISTEA the ability to joint venture exists. She has recently seen correspondence from the U.S. Department of Transportation encouraging public/private participation in joint ventures to the benefit of improving transportation systems. So she does believe that authority exists, should the state choose to go in that direction. MS. SANDVIK states it makes sense to locate a fueling facility in the vicinity of the Anchorage airport. Number 508 CHAIRMAN SHARP asks if there are any more questions for Ms. Sandvik. Hearing none, the chairman calls the next witness. Number 510 ART KOENINGER, Volunteer, Alaska Environmental Lobby states the lobby supports HB 330. Mr. Koeninger reads a written statement submitted to the committee. Number 535 CHAIRMAN SHARP asks if there are any questions for Mr. Koeninger. Hearing none, the chairman calls the next witness. JERRY GAY, Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) states he is standing in for Mr. Verrelli of DEC. Mr. Gay reads a letter from the commissioner of DEC to the prime sponsor of HB 330, Representative Green. DEC supports HB 330 and has no objections to the current version of the bill. CHAIRMAN SHARP asks if there are any questions for Mr. Gay. Number 556 SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asks what the unit of measurement is for natural gas. MR. GAY responds the unit of measurement is cubic feet. SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asks who the manufacturers of vehicles using natural gas are. (Apparently Ford is one of the manufacturers.) Number 565 CHAIRMAN SHARP notes there duel fuel generators have been on the market for quite a while. SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS makes a motion to discharge HB 330 from the Senate Transportation committee with individual recommendations. Number 568 CHAIRMAN SHARP, hearing no objection, orders HB 330 released from committee with individual recommendations.
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